I was reading the "Nu-Metal Guide" and Mallcore thing on your site today, and grinning like an idiot because I agreed with essentially everything you said. What you said about Tool though, I felt was a bit untrue. I've always disliked the comparisons between Tool and most "metal" nowadays, because let's be honest, most "metal" nowadays sucks. the musicians preforming the music have very little talent, the songs are terribly written (not to mention meaningless,) and the silly image projected by most nu-metal bands is laughable at best. That's why I take issue with your jabs at Tool. I'm hoping that you've heard most of their music, and actually understand it and it's references (you would be one of the first if you did, but I have faith)and as such can broadcast your opinion without being naive. If that's untrue though, and have heard perhaps only the songs played today on the radio, then I truly don't think it's fair to label them as something they're not. Although, I have to say, I have sort of a sinking feeling that perhaps you have heard Lateralus, one of their main singles, and not actually "gotten" it.

Now, I'm trying to avoid sounding like one of the many nu-metal kids who nowadays harp on their respective bands as "meaningful" or "deep", but in the case of this one song which I'm using as an example, the lyrics aren't about how dad won't let me take out the Benz, instead it's about learning about Phi (1.618...), and it's many possible applications. "We'll ride the spiral to the end and may just go where no one's been." That's something that isn't usually talked about in "mallcore" eh? Also Parabol/Parabola; Again, instead of some whining about how tough life is, it talks about the separation of the ego from the phyisical body. A fairly noble ideal if ever there was one. Anyway, thats my two cents, I hope you acknowledge them, and maybe even listen to some Tool... Thanks. -Reese

| 63. Your guitars must be Ibanez or Fender. Accept no substitutes.

I'd say it must be a Gibson Les Pauls. Just watch MTV for 10 minutes and you'll see 10 Gibsons fly by... Other from that, great site!!! ;-) -- Menno

Before I begin, let me just say that I grew up on Megadeth (Countdown and earlier) , Metallica (...And Just for All and earlier, though the Black album is tolerable) , Maiden (I prefer DiAnno to Bruce, to be honest), etc. In college, I moved on to Floridian Death Metal (Atheist, Cynic, Death--I was never a big fan of Morbid Angel), Carcass and etc. In the sphere of metal, I dig bands ranging the spectrum from Spastic Ink to Napalm Death to Opeth to Emperor to The Crown . I can safely say I am a fan of metal. Like many death metal fans, I play guitar and studied a bit of music theory in college. Having (in my opinion) established credibility, I will move on to some complaints I have with the debate that seems to be underway on your site.

Complaint #1) Yes, it is true. There is a reasonable fraction of nu-metal fans that are, shall we say, annoying pests engaging in synchronized non-conformity. Guess what. Everytime you throw on your black concert shirt and head off to a show, you are doing the same damn thing. The only difference is that you are running in a different clique. To deny this is to be blind of your own foibles. Now, I personally prefer the company of (some) death metal fans, but that doesn't change the fact that it is just another community with its own social standards. Don't believe me? Next time you go to a show, try wearing a loud hawaiian and khaki shorts (I know you're to0 tr00 to have your own so just borrow your dad's). Now that would be non-conformity.

Complaint #2) 49. You say things like "Korn are heavier than Iron Maiden or Judas Priest EVER were". I would argue Korn actually is heavier then Maiden or Priest for the simple reason that Maiden and Priest aren't that heavy. I'll concentrate on Maiden because I was never really a fan of Judas Priest so I don't feel qualified to discuss them. Let me begin by defining what I believe is a reasonable definition of Heaviness (in the context of metal). Heaviness is a property which indicates a relatively great amount of distortion, a relatively low pitch, and a tendency to encourage aggressive moshing. Maiden has none of these properties. The distortion is relatively light, the pitch is relatively high, and while Maiden may encourage one to exceed the speed limit or bang one's head, it is pretty lousy moshing music. Korn, on the other hand, is heavily distorted, does most of their playing in a lower register and, I would imagine is good to mosh to (having never been to a Korn show, I wouldn't know personally).

Complaint #3) 35. You don't realize that Pantera ripped off Exhorder after deciding to cease and desist with glam. This is garbage.
Here is the evidence:
Pantera -- Cowboys From Hell 1990
Exhorder -- Slaughter In The Vatican 1990
The albums came out contemperaneously, so your argument doesn't hold water. Besides the fact is that Cowboys from Hell is the least interesting thing Pantera put out in their non-glam period. Pantera doesn't even start putting out (IMO) non-generic metal until Far Beyond Driven. Don't get me wrong. I love Cowboys, I love Vulgar Display, but they aren't doing anything new there. In 1990, both Pantera and Exhorder were just louder versions of the thrash that filled the 80s.

A few other points.

On the talent of nu-metal bands: I would agree that, in general, death metal players are better musicians than nu-metal players. That said, nu-metal has it's gems. Danny Carey of Tool does, in fact, play some interesting rhythms. The Slipknot drummer is solid. He plays some polyrhythms that are fairly difficult. Korn's drummer also plays with good feel and some of his rhythms are non-trivial.

On SOAD: You have got to cut these guys some slack. They are a tight band. They are all competent musicians. They have a sound that is unique in an era with a lot of derivative acts (and I don't just mean in nu-metal *cough cough Gothenburg cough cough* don't get me started about how much crap I have to sort through to find a decent new death metal band.)

Oh, and so what that nu-metal fans are unaware of the 80s (and earlier roots of metal). Why don't you tell me a bit about Ian Anderson or Roger Fripp or Neil Peart or Muddy Waters or Chuck Berry. Believe it or not, these guys (distantly or otherwise) had an influence on the metal you listen to today.

Bottomline is this. Nu-metal isn't offensive. It's junk food. Not bad when you're hungry, but not very satisfying. Why don't you quit telling them how bad their music is (you sound like my father) and _show_ them how good yours is (by suggesting a track, sending them an mp3 etc...)

Oh, just so you don't think I am a completely humorless asshole. Some of that was pretty funny. -J

FUCKING REMEMBER THAT! -- Mark Harris

....and you lot are still whining and whinging over it!
GET OVER IT YOU JEALOUS FREAKS!

And if you or anyone dares to use me as an "example" for some crappy proff that Nu Metal fans are idiots, your a dick head and if anyone says your correct, they are also dick heads. I guess i'm actually a pissed off, intolerant teenager, but when people feel so inclined to comment on things they do not even bother to learn about, but even more, know nothing about, that pisses me off. Just for the record I was raised on Blues and Jazz and the "real" metal and I respect it all, but don't put out some half-formulated, misinformed idea of why Iron Maiden is heavier than Slipknot. Why don't you sit down with the sheet music and really see who is heavier. That is about all I have to say. I would love it if someone responded with some good points. Maybe it could turn into a good debate instead of a bunch of assholes (myself included) hurling insults.

Closed minded? Jesus, who just got done saying nu-metal fans are "worse off than Down's Syndrome patients"?

So why raise all this up? I like for everyone to have their opinion. It's a good thing. Personally, I can agree with some of the points that were raised from both sides of the argument. I mean, who doesn't at least giggle at Slipknot when they start acting "wild and crazy?" Even Slipknot themselves are barely hanging onto the idea of it, with two members working in Stonesour and others in their own projects.

So what can I say for nu-metal? For a time, it was interesting, and at times, still is.

There are some pretty unique sounding nu-metal bands out there, but they don't get
much in the the way of exposure, because good nu-metal isn't popular nu-metal. Lost Prophets? Dead before they even really got started. Chevelle is just now coming around to being in the spotlight, but I consider them to be on the borderline between nu-metal and rock band. I'll admit that I'm a fan of Linkin Park, but for totally different reasons that most others will list: I'm a big fan of loops and digital editing, and frankly, even though a lot of their new songs are comparable to their last CD (excluding the remix CD), I have yet to come across any band that sounds like them. I have no doubt they're out there, but there are copies of metal bands as well, and we both know that you can't hold clones against the original band. I don't like them because any of my friends like them, I don't like them because they wear baggy clothes (as I understand it, they've toned that down some, too). Hell, I don't care if they wear giant panda suits, just so long as I can still like the music.

Basically, I wrote this all out because of all the "real metal" fans I've ever come across on the internet, you are the only one that doesn't seem like the type to say "Bring me a Linkin Park CD so I can wipe my ass with it, then beat you over the head with a big stick". I'm actually kind of curious if all nu-metal sucks to the average metal listener, or if it's just bands that rely on a formulaic style of songwriting. Is it against the rules of good music to use samples, loops, and/or drum sequences with a detuned guitar? I write music (or try to, anyway), and something that I like doing is using drum beats that have a sort of "hip-hop" vibe to them (I know, it even sounds evil to me, but hear me out), and use different guitar, keyboard, and vocal effects to make interesting sounding songs. If it's in the interests of being, not necessarily the most outrageously different, but still unique kind of songwriter I can be, does that still automatically mean that it's worthless? More or less, I was mostly just curious to see if it was the music that was so bad, or if all the fans of it really are a bunch of idiots who always scream "slipknot (sic) is teh shi t, y'all!!!!111!" What if you listen to nu-metal and metal bands? I've never been able to get clear answers on any of this from any fans of bands like Meshuggah, Slayer, etc. I know rational minds are out there.

Well, I won't waste any more of your time with this general rant. I appreciate your reading this, and if you can, any reply you might be able to give, specifically answering the above questions if at all possible.

Many thanks, Scott

P.S.: Whenever somebody qoutes a bunch of stuff, points out things, and rambles, it generally seems like a tired excersice in finger pointing. Hope this didn't come out that way, as it wasn't intended to be as such.

Thanks for reading, Sean

PS: Slayer Whoops Burzum

I was reading through your 131 rules for being a nu metaller, and i could not keep a straight face. Then i hit the slipknot replies. Oh man, what a knee slapper.

Frankly, as teethy put it, it is sad to see so many wasted flesh pods running around being absolutely blind to the fact that what they listen to is at the bottom of the barrel. It's almost sad to watch them flamboyantly defend their favorite bands, only to givein to the fact that SoaD is not "art", and tool's drummer does not play in any "complex" time signatures. We all must have a place in our hearts where pity is felt for the undoubtedly misguided nu metal fans out there. Frankly, i don't think they even need to listen to Burzum. Sit them down and make them meorize every lyric from every Deicide album, memorize all the parts of the body from every Carcass album, and how to remove them from every Cannibal Corpse album, and just for good measure, lay out how Iron Maiden is in fact heavier than slipknot will ever be with a lot of sheet music and every cd the band has ever released, just so you can watch their heads go >POP!!<. And the suicide rate is irrelevant. if they cannot be attuned to what actually being able to play music is, they have no need for their ears, and they should be disallowed from purchasing CDs.

here's my addition: 132. You think that inane is just a misspelling of "insane" and take it as a compliment.

Perhaps the suicide rate would go down, or at any level, put a few Hot Topic stores out of business.

Good luck, `Manda

Thanks for your time.

P.S To that shithead who said that Joey is the BEST drummer ever - 1) Unless your dad is the second greatest drummer ever, shut the fuck up, no-one cares what he thinks. 2) Although they're not 'metal', Dream Theatre's Mike Portnoy is widely regarded by the music community as the best drummer in the world. Your dad's a twot, and by process of genetic inheritance, so are you. Joey is an extremely good drummer and the stand-out member of the band, but he is by far NOT the best drummer in the world.

The big thing that bugs me about nu-metal is the general mediocrity. Each and every nu-metal band basically plays a watered down version of another
band (Mudvayne is straight out of Meshuggah, Slipknot wants to be grindcore yet would be scared shitless by The Berzerker). Yet somehow people praise these people for being amazing artists....which they are not. My friend, who is a huge nu-metal fan, once told me "i don't like big guitar solos and stuff, it's lame). So basically the nu metal genre is basically saying "yeah screw all this musical skill, i just want to make noise", and somehow they become extremely popular. Not to mention there's piracy out the yinyang, people will hear a nu metal band and think it's original, yet it's just a blatant ripoff of some other band.

Naturally, the angst bugs me. Sure, all teens out there are angsty, but the overwhelming use of teen angst as subject matter just bugs the hell out of me. I just gets disgusting really fast. What happened to the technical skill that once was metal (and still is, albeit mostly not in the US)? You used to hear real musical talent in metal, that's gone now, at least in the well heard section. Now of course, some bands on this site really aren't nu metal (ie System of a Down and Tool), but hey, it's humor. Hell i could rant all night, but I think I'll go to sleep.

Keep up the good work and keep coming up with more cool ideas - Tim

And for so long I was stuck listening to the same group of "traditional" metal bands (Slayer, Kiss, Judas Priest, Crimson Glory, Pantera:
post-glam, Skid Row, Venom and a few other 80's bands that I had liked at the time like Badlands and Banshee), but never really dared to tread outside of what I *knew* that I liked, until one day, when I heard Slipknot's "Spit It Out." That day, everything changed for me, musically. Since that day I've been formally introducig myself to bands such as Nile, The Berzerker, Kreator, Cephalic Carnage, Skrape, Origin, Six Feet Under, Cattle Decapitation...the list goes on and on, into the hundreds of bands...almost 800 to be exact. I try to buy two cds a week, one old (still hanging on to the 80's-early 90's stuff and replacing the old cassette collection) and one new that I've never heard before (the new one this week was Symphorce: "Phorceful Ahead"). I find myself reading every review I can find for any cd I plan on buying and I have a H-U-G-E list of "to buy" cds that I'm constantly adding to and marking off. To make a boring story longer, the point of it is this...without Slipknot I never would have dared to bother with any of these bands. I never would have taken the time to listen to melodic death-metal or grind-core, but I'm fuckin' glad I did!

Your page was excellent and hilarious, and I just thought I'd share a Nu-Metal success story with ya. BTW...I'd much rather listen to Hellhammer/Celtic Frost (see...somebody caught that) than Staind, Limp Bizkit or Linkin Park anyday.

Thanks for listening. - Glenn

no matter if you like a band or not, or even if you dont respect them for what they do, you do have to carry on some sort of respect for other people liking them and the things that you tell people who have never heard of the band.... let people decide if they like a band for themselves...
you're probably one of those kids who claim to be underground and promote your bands and everything and once they get big, hate them... if you hear it on the radio or see it on MTV, you realize that other people like them and they are no longer your own... and you limit your musical liking to only what you claim is 'true metal' you are so closed minded... at least some people recognize musical talent...
-samantha-
sorry for the lack of grammar and puncuality

bands that suck: papa roach, puddle of mudd (possibly the worst band to have a hit in years.. I Fucking Hate them lalalala lalala lalala la la), static-x, slipknot, mudvayne, rancid... I could go on.

brian mallcore ===== ~>===Bye Luv Bri====>

First of all i feel really offended by some of the rules you mention, "wear masks and caps, no guitar solo's, copy styles of other bands" what is this, did you hear about something in your country call "liberty of expression", and is true that also that law make you put this thing on the internet but please....you are going too far by putting irrelevant,totally childish and no based opinions in this website, if you are going to criticise music, at least do it knowing and respecting the carrers of this bands.

A true musician, no matter what genre, would dont like all the music in the world, but it would at least tolerate that other people like it and it not even care about the clothes, or the members or the lyrics,etc...., just by the fact that he already know how it is to be in a band and get in tour, or play a concert,or lets not go too far, to be signed in a record label.

And now, about Limp bizkit,i got a big respect about them becuse it was the first band that i ever like it (before them i only listen to my fathers music which i will not mention it becuse its irrelevant), and i discover the rap music thanks to them.They got the most influence of rap in a Nu metal band that theres outside now, just becuse the fact that they got one of the best DJ´s of the last decade, im talking about DJ lethal that was the DJ in House of pain.

Linkin park is also a great band, Mike Shinoda (i dont know if i spell that right) its a great MC and i think he could make a great Hip hop solo album. Chester Bennington is a good songwriter too and got a vocal skill that is really difficult to compare with some of the bands that are now in Mtv. Also the Dj, Mr. Hahn, is a very original artist, he got sounds and a skill in the turntables that can speak more of his talent than i could.

I feel offended that you can actually compare them to be "kinda boy bands". A boy band is a teen band form by 5 or 4 members that cannot even play a guitar, they just sing like girls.But the members of much of the nu metal bands that you mention, got very talented singers, rappers, songwriters, drummers, guitarrist, bass players, and DJ's. i think you should hear more closely this music and is true that no all the songs are good (even if im a big fan LB some of they songs are really lame) but at least you could get a better music opinnion and not just say that "Slipknot Fuckin sux"

Keep up the good work

I think this has been said but be aware that every generation has a new form of music, whatever it may be. The people who were listing to the stuff before it will more than likely hate the new stuff. My parents hate my music, their parents hated their music and back and back...

The skill level is also irrelevant, you want skill? Listen to an orchestra playing Mozart or Bachn becuase their hasn't been much improvement since they composed music. Skill shouldn't really play much of a part in determining if you like a band/genre or not. Its the magazine critics job to do that (as badly as they usually do it). I mean, are you listing to something thinking "Well the guitar riffs are really quite hollow and the speed drumming is to repetative and the vocals are too growly and unintelligable", or are you listing to something just becuase you like the sound of it? however skillful it may be. I think most people with a functioning brain would lean towards the second option.

Nonsensical lyrics/sounds/etc.? Big deal! I am rather odd at times so why can't music? "Waa SOAD doesn't make sense..." YES IT DOES! How do you think political anit-war content should sound when put to music.
You want nonsensical lyrics? Listen to some stuff by Static-X (one of my favorite bands). Nonsensical sounds? listen to just about any song by Tool, especially LA Municiple Court or Merkabra. By far the oddest and one of the coolest songs I've heard recently is Dogfish Rising by Slipknot. <=== gasp not Slipknot! heh

As for my preferance in music, I said I like Nu-Metal and I do, but realistically I am not really genre specific. Aside from Nu-Metal, I like some alternative, punk, classic metal, death-metal, rap and even I'm A Slave 4U by Britney because the slut's panting and moaning turn me one. Hell, I'm not even very band specific. Every band I like has atleast 5 songs I totally hate.

Finally I just want to say that the term 'Nu-Metal' isn't fair (Listen to me whine). They are just put into this category because they are NEW bands. Most new bands sound nothing like eachother, and just because they've been labeled 'Nu' they are thrown aside by most people. Music should be put into the true genre based on sound not when they started out. After all, if there were no new bands where would music go from there? Sure all the old bands could keep going for a while, but eventually they would run out of ideas and stop playing or *gasp* get into so called Nu-Metal style. Even if they could keep their music fresh for years and years, they'd get older and older and we'd be going to 'The Pantera Reunine Tour of their last ablum which was a release of their previous tours' like the Rolling Stones did.

Well, there's my rant
P.S. a good rebuttal *argurement* isn't pointing out spelling/grammar/linguistics mistakes